Future Women podcast, Episode Leemara Fairgrieve transcript

Future Women podcast, Leemara Fairgrieve on being 'too accommodating'.

Police careers promotion: Sally Spicer

Too Much is a podcast series proudly supported by Victoria Police, who are looking for more women to join their ranks. Consider making the switch and explore a career with Victoria Police. Visit the link in the show notes or head to police.vic.gov.au.

Snippet: Leemara Fairgrieve

Regret is an awful feeling. If you give it a go and have confidence and try something different — and you don't like it — and you decide that it's not for you, that's okay. But I think that is a better feeling than having this regret.

Introduction: Briana Blackett

Every woman remembers the time they were too something at work: too ambitious, too soft, too bossy. Hi, I'm Briana Blackett, your host for season three of Too Much The Switch. I started out as a journalist. I lived abroad and traveled the world helping to cover breaking news. I co-founded an international news organisation, but since becoming a parent and solo carer to my two kids, my working life has needed to change over and over again. And I'm not alone. Join me as I interview eight extraordinary women who made the switch from one career to another and found success. We'll also find out how defying the suffocating stereotypes women face at work helped them get there.

From styling hair to fighting crime, Detective Senior Sergeant Leemara Fairgrieve made quite the switch when she left hairdressing to join Victoria Police. These days, she’s busting major drug syndicates and rising through the ranks. But while she’s tough on crime, Leemara admits she can be tough on herself, and at times, ‘too accommodating’. In this episode, Leemara joins Briana Blackett to discuss how her softer side actually helped her build trust, discover her passion, and find success in her role as a police officer.

Leemara Fairgrieve, thank you for joining us here on Too Much.

Leemara Fairgrieve

Thank you so much.

Briana Blackett

This season we're talking to women who have made the switch from one career to another. First and foremost, what attracted you to hairdressing?

Leemara Fairgrieve

I think, like everyone after you leave school, and I'd gone to university, and I wasn't quite sure if I was cut out for that, and I think I was probably a little bit lost, and my mum said, “You can't quit uni unless you've got a job.” And we talked about what kind of things I could do while I was deciding what I really kind of was passionate about. And she was like, “What about doing an apprenticeship? At least you can work, train and get paid.” And I was like, “Okay, that sounds like a great idea.” So I applied to be a plumber, an electrician, a carpenter and a hairdresser.

Briana Blackett

Wow. I mean, you just throw it all out there, right? Cast a wide net.

Leemara Fairgrieve

That's right, and I only heard back from the hairdressers, and that was me. Destiny sorted that out. And I did really like the idea of being creative, and I genuinely do like meeting people and talking to people, so it kind of was an easy fit for me.

Briana Blackett

Okay, well, obviously you didn't stay as a hairdresser, and we're going to get to why you made the switch in a moment. But this show is about people who have also been told at some point in their career that they were too much of something. You've chosen too accommodating as your too much. When did you first become aware that you were too accommodating?

Leemara Fairgrieve

A little while ago, taking on too much, constantly being asked to help out, finding myself in places that you kind of go, “How did I even end up here?”, and just constantly asked by others to go into areas or to go into work positions that even I was kind of surprised that they would ask. And finding myself in a huge variety of diverse work locations, and doing all this different type of work without even understanding how I was even getting there.

Briana Blackett

So you're naturally a people-pleaser. So you know, as a result of that, you said yes to things just to make sure people were happy and ended up in places you never thought you'd be?

Leemara Fairgrieve

Yeah, not wanting to disappoint if someone's, “Oh, are you able to help out? We really need someone like you to come in. And we just really need your help or your experience.” Or, “Are you able to just have a look at this?”, “Are you able to just quickly help with this?” And saying yes was a no-brainer,

Briana Blackett

Backtracking to your hairdressing career, I mean, that sounded like it was interesting. You seemed to be happy there. What was it that made you want to change from hairdressing to the police service?

Leemara Fairgrieve

It was kind of that fork-in-the-road moment as well of I'd been doing hairdressing for long enough and done everything that I probably could do, and I was starting to get a bit bored. I had a couple of friends who were in the police force, and I used to love listening to their stories. All the women in my family, a lot of them are nurses and in that kind of emergency services already, and I wanted to do something where I felt like I had some sort of purpose and really meaningful. And I guess, to be fair as well, you know you want that job security. You want to be trained and educated and also paid to be able to do a job, but then to know that there's this real diverse ability to move within that kind of organisation, but then still feel like you're protected because you have that job security. My mum was a single parent, so I think you always have it in the back of your mind that you have to protect yourself and your livelihood and your home to make sure that you have that kind of real security in life. And friends made it sound very, very interesting and fun, and just sounded amazing to me. And I just thought, for sure this is something that maybe I'll try. Maybe I'll just, you know, maybe I'll give it a go now. Maybe I'll try and I'll just--I'll put in but I don't think I'll be successful. But at least if I try and rule it out, then I'll have tried and done it.

Briana Blackett

Did people think you were crazy? Or did people think you know what, that makes sense, Leemara, do it?

Leemara Fairgrieve

Probably a little bit of both. I think my family and friends predominantly were, yeah, very, very supportive and also kind of went, “Oh, I can't see you doing it, but I can.” It was that thing of going, “Oh, you're not the strongest person in the world or the tallest person in the world, but you would probably be able to talk yourself out of really bad situations and befriend people. So yeah, I could see how that you might do alright with that.”

Briana Blackett

Yeah,I can imagine we have these sort of, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but kind of old fashioned views that you need to be like, tall and strong to be in the police force and so on. But what you've mentioned, there are some really crucial skills being able to talk to people. I mean, every hairdresser definitely needs to be able to do that.

Leemara Fairgrieve

Yeah, definitely. You build trust really quickly, and you have to kind of adapt to different personalities, and you know, you're in people's personal space, and you're essentially affecting how they look. So if you're not listening properly it's going to come back and haunt you. And I think that was a huge, and still is a huge part of, I guess, who I am and how I work. I'm genuinely interested in people and how they work and what makes them do things. And that's not only people that I work with, but people out in the community. Whether they're victims, witnesses, offenders, or just people that you meet just going for a walk, doing a door knock, meeting people and listening to people and just trying to learn from them every step of the way. It's one of those things of, you're going to a different house every half an hour, potentially, and you're spending time with people, and you're trying to do the best that you can at that moment. And you'll never know whether what you've said or what you've done has been enough or has resonated at that moment, but what you hope is that you've done enough at that time, and that you've tried to do your best at that time. And you know, I think just trying to treat everyone with kindness and respect, and even some of the offenders as well, speaking to them with respect. And you would have it at times where you would charge them with a criminal offense, and at times they would be, “Aw thanks,” and thanking you because you didn't speak to them in a rude way or a rude manner and and you hope that, well, that might help the next time, if they're charged, that they speak respectfully to the next police and don't get angry. And you kind of hope that if you treat everyone with that kind of respect and professionalism, that you know it helps others along the way. And I've had my opinion shifted by educating myself and listening to others. I think we have to continue to evolve and try and improve wherever we can.

Briana Blackett

And I can imagine the work that you do now. You can meet so many different types of people, you can be doing different things every day. You never know where you're going to be. You never know what you're going to be called on to do. Is that variety something that you were looking for, that you didn't necessarily have in hairdressing?

Leemara Fairgrieve

I don't know if I was looking for it, but that's one part that I absolutely love: that whole diversity of the role and not knowing what is going to happen day to day and being okay and ready for that change or or surprise. It's an-- really exciting role to be ready and waiting for what's about to happen.

Briana Blackett

So what was it like when you first entered the academy?

Leemara Fairgrieve

It was accelerated learning, well out of my comfort zone, but amazing. You're learning all about your various law, how to enact all of the law, all your processes, your guidelines, your legislation, all of that. We had a double squad, and I was pretty lucky because we had almost 50-50 men and women. And there was people from all different places, and they were so interesting. We were a real mixed group, and it was really quick friendship under pressure with exams. And none of us wanting to fail and none of us wanting to do badly and trying to help each other. And it was a really good feeling of camaraderie, you just have this real connection. Funny, I was thinking about at the academy, because I lived-in, and on a Sunday you would go back, and everyone we’d all watch The Simpsons together and be upstairs. And pretty much, I never ironed a shirt and never had to polish my boots, because I would trim everyone's hair. Because everyone had to have their hair trimmed for the parade on Monday morning. It was so funny, and I was like, I'd forgotten that even was a connection with hairdressing and policing that I opened a salon inside the police academy.

Briana Blackett

So it sounds like you had some fun with your peers in the academy. But were there any moments when you thought, wow, we're not in Kansas anymore?

Leemara Fairgrieve

I think halfway through we had to do firearms training. It was really accelerated firearms training in and around the use of your firearms, the different types of firearms, your justifications. And I'd never even held a firearm until I'd done that week and during the course but during the course they had like a case study in and around a crime scene that involved a firearm fatality. Yeah, I just remember being just shocked by that devastation of what a firearm can do and the seriousness of how important it is to do the role that we are doing and to protect people from that type of violence. And I remember just thinking, this is bigger than what I'd realised. Like, this is really a serious role, take it seriously. And that was a big kind of eye-opening moment for me of going, okay, listen, this is really important.

Briana Blackett

So when you left the academy and you joined the police service, what were your initial thoughts? What was it like to walk into such a different environment on that first day or those first few weeks?

Leemara Fairgrieve

Ah, definitely nervous. You know, not wanting to do anything wrong. But, this real sense of pride, yeah, I felt this real sense of I'm trying to protect people, I'm trying to look after the community and my friends and family. So I had this definite feeling of pride and wanting to do my best, but still very, very nervous.

Briana Blackett

You've actually done a few roles within the Victoria Police. Can you tell us about some of those?

Leemara Fairgrieve

My first place that I kind of worked was at Transit in serious and violent crime, robberies and drug trafficking that was in and around the railway stations. So, that was my first place. And initially I was disappointed, because I wanted to get out there on the police van, and that was what I thought, where I wanted to go and do, and where everyone kind of wanted to go, but I ended up at Transit. But really that was, is one of the best places to have started. That's what sparked my kind of ongoing goals and where I wanted to go. And then after there it went to Melbourne West, and went out to Epping uniform, to the Mill Park divisional Response Unit, which was investigating your drug offenses, and then I went into crime command at the Piranha Task Force, and then I went out to Altona and became a uniformed sergeant. And then I worked at Westgate Family Violence Unit, and worked at Westgate Sex Offenses and Child Abuse Unit, and then became a Senior Sergeant at the Westgate Highway Patrol, and then I’ve gone back into Crime Command. I’ve worked at Trident Task Force and now I'm at the major drug squad at Crime Command.

Briana Blackett

There is such a variety in what you've just laid out: the crime work, drugs investigations, working with survivors of family violence and so on. How has been too accommodating worked in those situations?

Leemara Fairgrieve

It can be a disadvantage in some instances, and at times, you have to be really careful that you don't take on too much and burn out. But I, by saying yes and going to different places and doing different secondments, because in amongst all that, I've also been at other locations for short periods of time. And just being able to say yes and take on those opportunities, then that's given me the ability to end up where I am and to reach the goals that I've wanted. It challenged me. It pushed me out of my comfort zone, but it also just gave me that confidence, I guess, to not listen to your own self doubt or your own negativity of, I can't do that, I'm not good enough for that, I don't know everything about that, how am I going to do that? And then by doing it and showing yourself, improving yourself, for me, it's been such a positive influence within my career, and I think it's given me, yeah, definitely more self confidence and more pride in the awareness of I can do things, I can rise to those challenges and learn new skills and new things.

Briana Blackett

Can you share a moment from your career in policing that stands out as being especially uncomfortable for you?

Leemara Fairgrieve

There's definitely been a few awkward moments. When I was back in uniform I remember climbing through a window to do a welfare check, and I got stuck because they were, the pants had no give in them. They were almost like plastic pants, and they had no give. And I literally got stuck halfway through this window, and I was by myself, and I had to like, literally almost shove myself through this window. I could barely move. I was like, if anyone saw that, they'd just be like, “What is that woman doing? Let's call the police. Oh, that's them.”

Briana Blackett

You took a rather unconventional path to joining the police. Does that mean that you possibly had to battle some of that imposter syndrome once you'd arrived?

Leemara Fairgrieve

I still struggle with that. You can be in a meeting and still sit there and think, oh, have I got enough to say? Should I be talking in this? Am I knowledgeable enough for this? And then you prove yourself, you surprise yourself and you go, no, actually, I do know this and I do have a voice. And it's being confident in yourself and knowing that other people around you as well. I've had some phenomenal mentors throughout my career as well, who, even when I'm starting to have those moments of self doubt, they're the ones that are standing there beside me going, “No, you need to do this ‘cause this is you. This is 100% you. You need to do it.” So I've been very lucky that I've had really good support and really good encouragement throughout my career as well. And that's, I guess, what I hope that I do as well to others.

Briana Blackett

What are some of the highlights of this new career that you're forging for yourself?

Leemara Fairgrieve

There has just been so much. It's essentially a whirlwind. And I don't think there's any one moment or one thing, every single place that I've gone, there's been some phenomenal people that I've worked with, and some amazing jobs that, you know, we've got some phenomenal results on. But it's definitely the people that you meet along the way that have just been the best.

Briana Blackett

You said when you were in hairdressing, while you enjoyed the creativity and connecting with others, you're a people-person. You were looking for purpose. Can you explain how you feel that in this new career?

Leemara Fairgrieve

Well, I guess, especially in the role that I'm in now. So within the major drug squad and trying to protect the community, and we've got a family member who's affected by drugs and drug addiction, and they're doing a phenomenal job at the minute of looking after themselves and pushing towards this life without drugs. And that reduction in harm and trying to prevent something similar happening to other people out in the community is huge. And seeing it firsthand as well, of not just within the police force, but seeing it from a personal level too, I think the important work that my office does in trying to prevent that kind of community harm just resonates with me twofold now.

Briana Blackett

So for women who are considering a major career change now, possibly thinking of making a really big switch like you did from one industry to another, what would you say to them? What do they need to be prepared for? What advice would you give?

Leemara Fairgrieve

I think having confidence in yourself. You know, a huge change in career can just change the whole outlook of life and regret is an awful feeling. If you give it a go and have confidence and try something different and you don't like it, and you decide that it's not for you, that's okay. But I think that is a better feeling than having this regret or what if or longing, because that's a harder, I think, emotion or a harder thing to deal with for longevity.

Briana Blackett

Yeah, definitely the regret of not doing something you later wish you had of, I think, is hard to let go.

Leemara Fairgrieve

And I've just, yeah. I've had an amazing career so far, and it's so exciting. And it literally was from one simple change, has opened to all these other possibilities and changed who I am.

Briana Blackett

That’s incredible, Leemara. Thank you so much for joining us. It's been such a pleasure to have you on the show today.

Leemara Fairgrieve

Oh, thank you.

Outro: Briana Blackett

Next time on Too Much: Kate Reed, an aerospace engineer turned multi-million dollar croissanterie founder on being too lucky.

Snippet: Kate Reed

Formula One is an extreme sport in a way, and even just through the sound of the car ripping through you, it was physical and it was visceral, and it felt like the start of an addiction. It was hard to admit that it wasn't working out.

Police careers promotion: Sally Spicer

Too Much is a podcast series proudly supported by Victoria Police, who are looking for more women to join their ranks. Consider making the switch and explore a career with Victoria Police. Visit the link in the show notes or head to police.vic.gov.au.